Help  •  Register  •  Login

Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Gene
47
63%
Ace
28
37%
 
Total votes : 75
<<

Kisscandinavia

Might as well be a member of the band!
Might as well be a member of the band!

Posts: 1285

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:16 pm

Post Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:27 am

Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Who is the better songwriter out of these two?
The question is NOT about their guitar/bass playing just about their sonwriting skills.
<<

banks

User avatar

Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!

Posts: 7840

Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:56 am

Location: Finland

Post Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:53 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Hard to say. Ace seems to be a little better at recognizing which songs are good and therefore worth putting on an album. Also, Gene is always criticized for taking ideas from other people and putting his name in there, but it seems that whenever I love an Ace songs these days, it turns out it was written by someone else.
<<

The Fox

User avatar

2,000 Man, baby!
2,000 Man, baby!

Posts: 2287

Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:37 pm

Location: California, United States

Post Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:06 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Lyrically it's a tossup as both have written some pretty suspect lyrics:

Ace, "Two Sides of the Coin":

"I've met some ladies and then some girls
But they don't tell you, they just want a whirl"

vs.

Gene, "Burn Bitch Burn":

"When love rears its head, I want to get on your case
Ooh baby, wanna put my log in your fireplace"

Keep in mind that these lyrics were written by grown men in their 30s.
<<

kurrebiten

Welcome To The Show!
Welcome To The Show!

Posts: 7

Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:46 am

Location: Sweden

Post Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:13 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

I personally love Gene as a songwriter. He's tounge & cheek humor is the best!
<<

Thunderous_Lay

User avatar

Stockholder in KISS Corp.
Stockholder in KISS Corp.

Posts: 1061

Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:59 am

Post Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:20 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

The Fox wrote:Lyrically it's a tossup as both have written some pretty suspect lyrics:

Ace, "Two Sides of the Coin":

"I've met some ladies and then some girls
But they don't tell you, they just want a whirl"

vs.

Gene, "Burn Bitch Burn":

"When love rears its head, I want to get on your case
Ooh baby, wanna put my log in your fireplace"

Keep in mind that these lyrics were written by grown men in their 30s.

Ace wasn't thirty years-old when Unmasked was released.
<<

I Am A FREAK

User avatar

Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!

Posts: 5220

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:01 pm

Location: Milano Rock City - Italy

Post Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:38 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Gene
<<

Planet Caravan

User avatar

Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!

Posts: 2850

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:33 pm

Post Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:54 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

I love Ace's stuff but i voted Gene because he does seem more consistent overall.

On the otherhand Ace seems to have a better "shit filter" so not as many crappy songs get released as Gene.
<<

Phyllis Simmons

User avatar

Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!

Posts: 3521

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:50 am

Post Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:07 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Gene's got some utter dross in the catalogue.... But his high points are stronger than Ace's high points...
Gene wins!
<<

battra

User avatar

Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!

Posts: 11686

Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:30 pm

Location: St. Louis

Post Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:53 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Well...in the early 70's...it's Gene hands down.

In the late 70's...it's Ace hands down.

In the 80's...also Ace hands down.

In the 90's...Gene wins by default...but those songs were so strong, he'd have crushed Ace anyway.

In 00's...Ace wins hands down.

So...Ace by a nose....but that's just because Gene's lazy.
<<

KISSTRONAUT

User avatar

Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!

Posts: 10963

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:01 am

Location: The Kingdom of the Spiders, The Empire of the Ants.

Post Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:11 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Gene. Not even close.
<<

Mystogan

User avatar

2,000 Man, baby!
2,000 Man, baby!

Posts: 2259

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:42 am

Location: The Great White North

Post Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:15 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Easily Gene.

Not only do I think his highlights like Mr. Make Believe are much higher, but in general I think he can do more as a songwriter then Ace.
Last edited by Mystogan on Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
<<

Thunderous_Lay

User avatar

Stockholder in KISS Corp.
Stockholder in KISS Corp.

Posts: 1061

Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:59 am

Post Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:16 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

After a bit of pondering, I consider Gene's individual offerings to be stronger than Ace's but ironically enough, Gene never managed to release an album as solid as Ace's '78 solo one, which is, in my opinion, the strongest of them all.

Still, I voted Gene.
<<

aceshigh

User avatar

Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!

Posts: 9350

Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:30 pm

Post Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:53 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Rip It Out just about buries or matches Genes best. I think they are both lazy songwriters but when either of them try they come up with the goods. Pretty equal.
<<

The Fox

User avatar

2,000 Man, baby!
2,000 Man, baby!

Posts: 2287

Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:37 pm

Location: California, United States

Post Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Thunderous_Lay wrote:
The Fox wrote:Lyrically it's a tossup as both have written some pretty suspect lyrics:

Ace, "Two Sides of the Coin":

"I've met some ladies and then some girls
But they don't tell you, they just want a whirl"

vs.

Gene, "Burn Bitch Burn":

"When love rears its head, I want to get on your case
Ooh baby, wanna put my log in your fireplace"

Keep in mind that these lyrics were written by grown men in their 30s.

Ace wasn't thirty years-old when Unmasked was released.


Oh, I'm sorry. Ace was 29 at the time. :roll:
<<

Crimson Harpoon

User avatar

Might as well be the Admin!
Might as well be the Admin!

Posts: 15460

Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 8:31 pm

Post Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:18 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Apples & oranges.

That said, they are both hit and miss. I do think Gene's misses are way more off the mark than Ace's are. Gene has written some of my absolute favorite KISS music. In fact, if I were to list my top 20-25 KISS songs, Gene would almost definitely have more entries than anyone else. Unfortunately, he has also written some of the band's worst music as well. While I do like a lot his material that most fans on here don't, it doesn't change the fact a lot of his stuff is pure crap, even by my more eclectic taste.

While I'm not a giant fan of Ace's material as an actual member of KISS, I think his solo stuff is as good as anything KISS has done. I'll take Space Invader over most KISS albums beyond the first six. Even his misses aren't that bad. Off hand, I can't think of any Ace tracks that I actually hate, while I can name a ton of Gene's that I feel that way about. The only thing I can say is that (IMHO) a lot of Ace's material has dated far worse than Gene's. An album like Trouble Walkin' is miserably stuck in the 80's where some of Gene's 80's material has actually gotten better with age. Especially the stuff that wasn't that great at the time.

While I look at Ace's '78 solo album as one the greatest albums with a KISS logo on the cover, I see Gene's as the absolute worst record to wear that same logo. Gene may hit higher highs, but he also hits far lower lows. At the same time, I love the eclectic nature of Asshole and actually find it to be one of the most enjoyable KISS-related releases of all-time. That's where Gene shines over Ace... He's not as predictable. His nature is much more eclectic & varied. Unfortunately, I think because of that, he (Gene) also comes across as not as genuine. Like he's churning out stuff just for the sake of it. He can also turn out stuff that doesn't appeal to the average KISS fan (which is fine by me). As much as I love Space Invader, I'd love to see Ace branch out and write more personally, like he did on Anomaly. I think he needs a little more experience writing like that, but it was very refreshing. Ace's music can be (and often is) much more charming and interesting than Gene's.

To sum up, I honestly can't pick between the two. They really are apples and oranges, neither of which I prefer over the other nor could I give either up.
<<

Phyllis Simmons

User avatar

Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!

Posts: 3521

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:50 am

Post Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:43 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

aceshigh wrote:I think they are both lazy songwriters but when either of them try they come up with the goods.

Fair point.. Very true..
<<

KISS#1

User avatar

2,000 Man, baby!
2,000 Man, baby!

Posts: 2368

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:24 pm

Location: California

Post Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:03 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Gene Simmons gets my vote.
<<

HotterThanHeck

User avatar

Might as well be a member of the band!
Might as well be a member of the band!

Posts: 1316

Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:45 am

Location: Deveraux's Hideout

Post Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:35 pm

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Gene's later songs usually sound very generic to me. Ace gets my vote, but just barely. Truthfully, Paul was always the songwriting talent that the other guys had to measure up to.
<<

kenn.ace

Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!

Posts: 2720

Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:23 pm

Post Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:12 pm

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Ace
<<

B5Erik

User avatar

Might as well be the Admin!
Might as well be the Admin!

Posts: 12561

Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:46 pm

Location: www.VistaRecords.us & Vista Records Radio on YouTube

Post Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:50 pm

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Planet Caravan wrote:On the otherhand Ace seems to have a better "shit filter" so not as many crappy songs get released as Gene.

He used to, but his last two albums of originals sure could have used that filter...

...a lot.
<<

Crimson Harpoon

User avatar

Might as well be the Admin!
Might as well be the Admin!

Posts: 15460

Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 8:31 pm

Post Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:09 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

HotterThanHeck wrote:Gene's later songs usually sound very generic to me. Ace gets my vote, but just barely. Truthfully, Paul was always the songwriting talent that the other guys had to measure up to.


I think Paul's generally work better for the time period in which they're written/released because Paul is simply trying to write hits. Gene's songs (IMHO) are more genuine and usually age better. He also has a wider range than Paul. KISS' early catalog is so great because it contains music from four different yet complimentary individuals. Looking at the first six albums, nobody had to measure up to Paul. Gene-penned tracks like Deuce, Nothin' to Lose, Watchin' You, She, Christine Sixteen and Calling Dr. Love are all KISS staples.
<<

Phyllis Simmons

User avatar

Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!

Posts: 3521

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:50 am

Post Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:42 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

B5Erik wrote:
Planet Caravan wrote:On the otherhand Ace seems to have a better "shit filter" so not as many crappy songs get released as Gene.

He used to, but his last two albums of originals sure could have used that filter...

...a lot.

then what would you say about SB and Monster? At a guess, quite possibly half this forum, would rate Anomaly and SI as a better pair of albums?
<<

kenn.ace

Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!

Posts: 2720

Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:23 pm

Post Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:25 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

B5Erik wrote:
Planet Caravan wrote:On the otherhand Ace seems to have a better "shit filter" so not as many crappy songs get released as Gene.

He used to, but his last two albums of originals sure could have used that filter...

...a lot.

And I would say, Ace's last two studio albums are excellent. There is only maybe 2 or 3 songs between them I do not like. That seems like a pretty good ratio to me.

I like a few of Gene's songs on Sonic Boom, but I can't think of any on Monster I like.
<<

kenn.ace

Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!

Posts: 2720

Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:23 pm

Post Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:28 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Phyllis Simmons wrote:
B5Erik wrote:
Planet Caravan wrote:On the otherhand Ace seems to have a better "shit filter" so not as many crappy songs get released as Gene.

He used to, but his last two albums of originals sure could have used that filter...

...a lot.

then what would you say about SB and Monster? At a guess, quite possibly half this forum, would rate Anomaly and SI as a better pair of albums?

Anomaly and Space Invader are about 10 times better than Sonic Boom and Monster.
<<

Crimson Harpoon

User avatar

Might as well be the Admin!
Might as well be the Admin!

Posts: 15460

Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 8:31 pm

Post Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:43 pm

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

kenn.ace wrote:
Phyllis Simmons wrote:
B5Erik wrote:
Planet Caravan wrote:On the otherhand Ace seems to have a better "shit filter" so not as many crappy songs get released as Gene.

He used to, but his last two albums of originals sure could have used that filter...

...a lot.

then what would you say about SB and Monster? At a guess, quite possibly half this forum, would rate Anomaly and SI as a better pair of albums?

Anomaly and Space Invader are about 10 times better than Sonic Boom and Monster.


No.

They're 1,000 times better!!! :thumleft: :ace: :thumright:
<<

stutterer

User avatar

Vinnie's Tupperware Party Assistant!
Vinnie's Tupperware Party Assistant!

Posts: 838

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:28 pm

Post Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:35 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

No idea what's theirs and what's not, since they use outside writers. Gene's Kiss songs seem a little generic. Ace's songs sound a bit more varied in style although he builds a lot of them around the same two tricks with F# bent to G and that Cold Gin thing from the main riff. Really like their In Your Face, it would be cool if Ace did it live.
<<

battra

User avatar

Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!

Posts: 11686

Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:30 pm

Location: St. Louis

Post Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:46 am

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

Crimson Harpoon wrote:
kenn.ace wrote:
Phyllis Simmons wrote:
B5Erik wrote:
Planet Caravan wrote:On the otherhand Ace seems to have a better "shit filter" so not as many crappy songs get released as Gene.

He used to, but his last two albums of originals sure could have used that filter...

...a lot.

then what would you say about SB and Monster? At a guess, quite possibly half this forum, would rate Anomaly and SI as a better pair of albums?

Anomaly and Space Invader are about 10 times better than Sonic Boom and Monster.


No.

They're 1,000 times better!!! :thumleft: :ace: :thumright:


Anomaly is the best Kiss/Related album in the last 20 years....and if you take out CoS, best in 35.

CoS and Anomaly...not sure which is better....
<<

Crimson Harpoon

User avatar

Might as well be the Admin!
Might as well be the Admin!

Posts: 15460

Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 8:31 pm

Post Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:18 pm

Re: Gene vs. Ace (as a songwriter)

battra wrote:
Crimson Harpoon wrote:
kenn.ace wrote:
Phyllis Simmons wrote:
B5Erik wrote:
Planet Caravan wrote:On the otherhand Ace seems to have a better "shit filter" so not as many crappy songs get released as Gene.

He used to, but his last two albums of originals sure could have used that filter...

...a lot.

then what would you say about SB and Monster? At a guess, quite possibly half this forum, would rate Anomaly and SI as a better pair of albums?

Anomaly and Space Invader are about 10 times better than Sonic Boom and Monster.


No.

They're 1,000 times better!!! :thumleft: :ace: :thumright:


Anomaly is the best Kiss/Related album in the last 20 years....and if you take out CoS, best in 35.

CoS and Anomaly...not sure which is better....


IMHO...

Carnival of Souls
Space Invader (extremely close 2nd)
Anomaly (a little farther behind)

Return to GENERAL KISS DISCUSSION



Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software.