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Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

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jannep17

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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:06 am

Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

I'll start.

Weird guitar solo/drum break in Dark Light.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:39 am

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Love Theme from 'KISS'....a boring instrumental that really goes nowhere......
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:52 am

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Why they released HITS
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:55 am

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

1981
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Klankh79

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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:22 am

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

jannep17 wrote:I'll start.

Weird guitar solo/drum break in Dark Light.


Ace's solo in Dark Light is my favorite of his. towards the end where he's playing so fast, those notes drill into my head the same way unpleasant noise does....but its not unpleasant. i always slow down and allow myself to fully absorb this solo. thats rare for me.

but to answer your question......why didnt Gene do more God of Thunder-type songs? people always generalize and say, ya know, he was the demon he wrote the demony-"dark" songs of the group......but that was really pretty rare if you study his output over the years. after GoT, his next demony song was Mr. Blackwell. then ..... what? nothing until Unholy?? and what have we had since......In My Head maybe......I'm An Animal.....The Devil is Me.............thats not much darkness over a 38 year span....!!
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:27 am

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Unmasked seemed to really come out of left field.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:29 am

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Why they released COS.

When at the time they knew they were getting back with AandP and weren't going to Tour the record.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:47 am

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

HOFCity wrote:Why they released COS.

When at the time they knew they were getting back with AandP and weren't going to Tour the record.

Because it was making the rounds in the bootleg circles, and they figured if someone was gonna make money off of it, it might as well be them.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:48 am

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Dynasty & Unmasked.

Anything after those came as no surprise. They'd already committed the ultimate sin (Disco).


cdb1 wrote:
HOFCity wrote:Why they released COS.

When at the time they knew they were getting back with AandP and weren't going to Tour the record.

Because it was making the rounds in the bootleg circles, and they figured if someone was gonna make money off of it, it might as well be them.


...And because it was some of the best damned music they ever created.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:51 am

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

COS
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:53 am

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Crimson Harpoon wrote:Dynasty & Unmasked.

Anything after those came as no surprise. They'd already committed the ultimate sin (Disco).


cdb1 wrote:
HOFCity wrote:Why they released COS.

When at the time they knew they were getting back with AandP and weren't going to Tour the record.

Because it was making the rounds in the bootleg circles, and they figured if someone was gonna make money off of it, it might as well be them.


...And because it was some of the best damned music they ever created.



i reckon the whole reunion thing was shaky for a while too, not knowing whether Ace n Pete would be properly on board in time for everything to come together, COS was a backup plan. wouldnt surprise me if there werent early talks about how to tour/promote that one, just in case.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:55 am

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Crown Royal wrote:COS


In a way I don't understand it either. It was too deep lyrically and to "hard" instrumentally for it to appeal the typical KISS fan.

I guess it was just KISS trying to ride different coattails.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:05 am

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Crimson Harpoon wrote:
Crown Royal wrote:COS


In a way I don't understand it either. It was too deep lyrically and to "hard" instrumentally for it to appeal the typical KISS fan.

I guess it was just KISS trying to ride different coattails.


i think its easier to get into that album than people may believe. how much does lack of momentum come into play here? by the time COS came out, we hadnt had consecutive STUDIO album releases since 84-85......they were reduced to playing their own conventions after Revenge......compilation compilation compilation......then COS. how many people did they lose between Asylum and COS?
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:06 am

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Klankh79 wrote:

i reckon the whole reunion thing was shaky for a while too, not knowing whether Ace n Pete would be properly on board in time for everything to come together, COS was a backup plan. wouldnt surprise me if there werent early talks about how to tour/promote that one, just in case.


No doubt. Which is another reason why COS is the most ridiculous album KISS has made.

If the reunion didn't pan out we would have heard how they were now a pseudo-grunge band, and it was a natural progression at this point in their careers, blah, blah, blah. The songs of yesterday belong to yesterday...we could never put the makeup back on, it's not who we are at this stage, blah, blah, blah.

But, the reunion was pulled off, successfully so, so KISS was a pseudo-grunge band for about twelve months.

Of all the things they've done, none came off as disingenuous as that period.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:27 am

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Crown Royal wrote:
No doubt. Which is another reason why COS is the most ridiculous album KISS has made.

If the reunion didn't pan out we would have heard how they were now a pseudo-grunge band, and it was a natural progression at this point in their careers, blah, blah, blah. The songs of yesterday belong to yesterday...we could never put the makeup back on, it's not who we are at this stage, blah, blah, blah.

But, the reunion was pulled off, successfully so, so KISS was a pseudo-grunge band for about twelve months.

Of all the things they've done, none came off as disingenuous as that period.


huh. i certainly understand your perspective. for me, the album was awesome, and yes, it did seem like a natural progression from Revenge, lol, without Paul having to tell me that tho.

about the makeup......considering how long this has gone on now, i cant help but think back to an interview i read around the Revenge era, where i think Gene says "We could put the makeup on, go thru the motions".....and then Paul finished the sentence....."and put up a big lighted sign that says PATHETIC." in a few short years, suddenly there were a million reasons why a reunion was no longer pathetic, hah.

finally, the degradation of the live performance in recent years.....have made Stan's words truer than ever
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:28 am

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

I never understood Asylum.

In the late 70s to early 80s KISS watches as heavier and heavier bands have massive success -- Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Ozzy ... so Creatures, Lick It Up and Animalize are really heavy albums.

During this time 1982, 1983, 1984, who had huge success -- Motley Crue, Quiet Riot, Twisted Sister, Scorpions. Still pretty heavy bands, on the whole.

So what does KISS do in 1985? Put out a less heavy album! Why? The poppier hair metal Bon Jovi stuff didn't take off until 1986 or so.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:29 am

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

i dont think Asylum is appreciably less heavy than its immediate predecessors. Love's A Deadly Weapon has a couple almost thrashy moments.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:30 am

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Crazy Nights. Terrible album, and they waited a year -- and missed the boat -- to put this garbage out.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:37 am

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Klankh79 wrote:i dont think Asylum is appreciably less heavy than its immediate predecessors. Love's A Deadly Weapon has a couple almost thrashy moments.


Some moments, but even those moments are not raw, they're overproduced. And overall you have "Who Wants to be Lonely," "Tears are Falling," "Uh! All Night," "Secretly Cruel."

All I can figure is they were emulating Van Halen's 1984 (this is apparently the case with costumes) and maybe heard Motley Crue's upcoming Theatre of Pain was going to be shinier and poppier.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:04 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

I listened to a lot of "prog" before getting into simpler stuff like Kiss, so The Elder seems like a delusion of a drugged out rockstar to me. Like if Dee Dee Ramone decided to do this instead of rapping as Dee Dee King (which I still liked). It just makes no sense, because it's so damn poor, short and restrained musically. Since the said drugged out rockstar and the scapegoat was Ezrin, it's surprising to me that Gene and Paul didn't write anything at least on par with what Wicked Lester did. That band didn't have a voice of its own, but it did have rather complex tunes and arrangements. I understand wanting to cash in on disco, new wave, heavy metal, Bon Jovi, but this was like 10 years too late to cash in on.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:22 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Why BETH was the song that "conquered the world" so to speak - for a band with leather, Amps, leather, fire, explosions. Why why why did we - the fans - embrace the violins and piano so very much?
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:31 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Psycho Circus. To miss an opportunity to record one more album with ALL new material with the four originals playing on each song, sigh! (Yes I know this has been beat to death but its the first thing that comes to mind.)
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:38 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

JohnBergless wrote:Why BETH was the song that "conquered the world" so to speak - for a band with leather, Amps, leather, fire, explosions. Why why why did we - the fans - embrace the violins and piano so very much?


It was more the general public. That song got radio airplay on stations that would not otherwise play KISS. Then it lead to other media exposure. That's what happened. And it happened again with "I Was Made For Lovin' You".
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

The Elder. Why would they attempt a concept album:

1. Just as the genre was going out of style and
2. When they were established as a "song" band as opposed to an "album" one?

Kiss missing the boat would become a recurring theme from then on.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:52 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Crimson Harpoon wrote:
Crown Royal wrote:COS


In a way I don't understand it either. It was too deep lyrically


Many KISS fans are Rush fans, I'm not sure deep lyrics automatically drive too many of us away.

But, if I do want deep lyrics I tend to avoid KISS.

It was just so forced, so fake, that's why I don't like it. Nothing more than that.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:31 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

jannep17 wrote:Weird guitar solo/drum break in Dark Light.


I love it. What do you think is weird about it?
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:00 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Crown Royal wrote:COS


Well since the 80's Kiss tried to be like all the other rock acts. The 80's it was hair and stupid clothes. COS was their attempt at grunge.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Deuce Frehley wrote:
jannep17 wrote:Weird guitar solo/drum break in Dark Light.


I love it. What do you think is weird about it?


It's not bad, it just seems out of place. But I guess the whole Elder album was kind of misdirected. As several people in this thread point out; it was a bit late to jump on the concept album wagon. Kiss was in deep water and they sensed it. But I guess it wasn't really obvious until the famous record company listening party.

And I like The Elder! But it was the wrong album at the wrong time!

And don't get me started on COS... That was not Kiss. That was... actually, I don't even know what that was.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:23 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Deuce Frehley wrote:
jannep17 wrote:Weird guitar solo/drum break in Dark Light.


I love it. What do you think is weird about it?


Probably that it's a guitar solo without any rhythm guitar or bass behind it. To some, that might seem 'weird'.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:25 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

After Love Gun doing Dynasty. And after Dynasty doing Unmasked. And after Unmasked doing The Elder. I like each of those albums for what they are, but back then I was thinking where did my kick ass band go.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:28 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Man of a Thousand Aces wrote:
Deuce Frehley wrote:
jannep17 wrote:Weird guitar solo/drum break in Dark Light.


I love it. What do you think is weird about it?


Probably that it's a guitar solo without any rhythm guitar or bass behind it. To some, that might seem 'weird'.


It's also unusally long for a guitar solo in a song, and the drums/percussion behind it is more elaborate than normal, and different from the regular arrangement in the verses and the chorus.
Last edited by jannep17 on Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:28 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Psycho Circus....why do a reunion album when there were no plans for the original 4 to play on it!
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:30 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

LordThurisaz wrote:Crazy Nights. Terrible album, and they waited a year -- and missed the boat -- to put this garbage out.


Questionable production and some very poor song choices. I'd much rather it had been something like:

PAUL

Crazy Crazy Nights
I'll Fight Hell To Hold You
Sword And Stone
Reason To Live
Hide Your Heart (the '87 demo slays the version they put out two years later)

GENE

No No No (damn you all to Hades, I like it)
Hell Or High Water
Nobody's Perfect
Good Girl Gone Bad
Are You Always This Hot?

Note: I love Thief In The night, but feel it should have been on Animalize or Asylum to increase Gene's quality quotient on those albums.

ERIC

Nightmare
Dial L For Love
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:34 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Rhiannon wrote:Psycho Circus....why do a reunion album when there were no plans for the original 4 to play on it!


I'm less concerned about who played on it than the quality of the songs. Out of ten tracks, half are okay to good and the other half venture from embarrassing to awful.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:29 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

I never understood why Paul waited to write songs in the studio.

Gene wrote stuff everyday and Ace and Peter would always contribute (what they were allowed). I always wondered why Paul never wrote
and recorded 4 track demos at home. I read he would go into Electric Lady and cut tracks by himself in the 70's.

I know there's some stuff on the box set, but I would love to hear some more 70's demos from him.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:43 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Why Gene automatically gets to write/sing so many songs per album. Kiss is usually better when he shuts the fuck up and acts like a sideman instead of a frontman.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:15 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

The Fox wrote:Why Gene automatically gets to write/sing so many songs per album. Kiss is usually better when he shuts the fuck up and acts like a sideman instead of a frontman.

I disagree. KISS' most loved albums are those where Gene has at least a few awesome songs. That said, a Gene directed album, such as The Elder, is not a good thing.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:21 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Rhiannon wrote:Psycho Circus....why do a reunion album when there were no plans for the original 4 to play on it!


Because it would've exposed their shortcomings as songwriters and musicians in 1998.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:22 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

Man of a Thousand Aces wrote:
Deuce Frehley wrote:
jannep17 wrote:Weird guitar solo/drum break in Dark Light.


I love it. What do you think is weird about it?


Probably that it's a guitar solo without any rhythm guitar or bass behind it. To some, that might seem 'weird'.


That's what I was thinking. Because it's being played without chord changes behind it. That's a modal way of playing or as created by Ornette Coleman, harmolodic. Not that this was any type of jazz, ha ha ha. but I do love that part of the song. I like that album. And I like a lot of music that most would consider weird. That's cool.
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Post Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:27 pm

Re: Musical things you don't understand in Kisstory?

There were things that I didn't understand before but now I do.
Like ghost musicians, producer selections, trend following and such.
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